Text extraction. See Typescript Archive
09:19:37
09:19:37 From Jeff Miller clockless simulation? oh I recall the digit recognition chip work Carver Mead and team?
09:21:59 From Jeff Miller "going analog for the weights in the network is a way we'll go with the language models / AIs, making a million chips the same ... probably the digital algorithm for gradient descent, etc., will get us to an analog ship" chip AlohaNet multi-hop digital packet radio
09:23:36 From Paul Rodwell https://www.mcgovern.org/the-legacy-of-patrick-j-mcgovern/from-the-pages-of-tech-history/april-11-1973-hawaiis-alohanet-system-becomes-the-first-satellite-connection-on-arpanet/
09:24:26 From Jeff Miller AlohaNet history -- what's the progression toward WiFi and later protocols? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALOHAnet
09:24:59 From Paul Rodwell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Abramson
09:26:18 From Robert Best I'll need about 10 more minutes or so before I can be fully present.
09:26:20 From Jeff Miller (description of the French semaphore telegraph system, and people front-running financial signal in the error correction protocol)
09:26:58 From Paul Rodwell from the Computer History Museum - https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102792095
09:26:59 From Jeff Miller (Robert B's and Ward's business: connecting folks related to Thompson's work and the WikiCafe folks - can we get WikiCafe to meet Tina's needs?) a custom registration window to enter an email address and remember it in the right place -- on the wikicafe server
09:28:00 From Jeff Miller "What part of Tina's job are the WikiCafe people going to do, and what parts need to be delegated back to Tina and others?" a UI prototype -> a script with the same fields -> when you push the button it does something -> provisions a student's wiki exactly how the student needs it.
09:29:55 From Jeff Miller ALOHAnet, collision detection and retransmission, is the piece of the protocol which I recall that Bob Metcalfe re-used in Ethernet. " Nodes did not wait for the channel to be clear before sending, but instead waited for acknowledgement of successful receipt of a message, and re-sent it if this was not received. Nodes would also stop and re-transmit data if they detected any other messages while transmitting. While simple to implement, this results in an efficiency of only 18.4%"
09:31:09 From Jeff Miller Marc is in England, north of London; just traveled from the US.
09:32:16 From Jeff Miller On the agenda: tightening the loops between the needs and the other relevant folks for wiki provisioning for the students of Tina's class. (to Marc's question) Wiki configuration setup?
09:33:31 From Jeff Miller "When you create a new site, you have to force it to change by using a tool, the one where you update plugins, forces a server restart - Plugmatic" Ward: there's an Express app, the server, and then there's a wrapper program that relaunches the server when it sees that it's stopped -- it works for wiki farms.
09:34:35 From Jeff Miller "you restart it unless [...] is going on, then you let it actually stop." Paul: the outer wrapper watches the file system, so you shouldn't need to actually restart it when you create a new wiki in the farm.
09:36:12 From Paul Rodwell code that detects adding wiki - https://github.com/fedwiki/wiki/blob/master/farm.coffee#L47-L53
09:38:00 From Jeff Miller "watcher .on 'addDir', ..." detects the new directory's name and adds it to allowed wiki hosts
09:39:03 From Jeff Miller https://sep15.wcs.ustawi.wiki/view/welcome-visitors/view/custom-registration
09:40:30 From Jeff Miller "it has to create the right directory in the wikicafe Docker environment" (Ward's demonstration of the HTML form used to register a new student) "Thompson understands the form and can draft it with the preferred words and language"
09:41:46 From Jeff Miller Two parts of provisioning: 1. provisioning the site; 2. loading in Thompson's starting pages
09:42:18 From Robert Best Replying to "code that detects ad..." and by adding wiki, you mean that adding a new empty folder gets around the oops page? yes, this process doesn't need a restart
09:42:38 From Jeff Miller The next step is to get enough wikis provisioned to run an experiment with Tina and Kavita and Thompson
09:44:16 From Jeff Miller Once the provisioning scripts and the forms are set up, then (step 3) they'll be ready to have a teacher provision sites for their students, and can go to a full scale of 150 students.
09:44:37 From Paul Rodwell Question : did we want complete wiki-server #144 so that a wiki with a larger set of default pages could be setup for each class? Think this was left over from the previous school project.
09:45:16 From Jeff Miller Once we have a pretty good way of provisioning students, then we can create a pattern for deploying groups of wikis for working together, beyond the original middle school group. (Ward's plans) twenty minutes into the future
09:46:53 From Jeff Miller https://github.com/fedwiki/wiki-server/pull/144 - "configure to overlay defaults from site" (a named site which hosts the default pags) pages "What do we normally do with scripts?" (I'll leave that unasked)
09:48:15 From Jeff Miller "designated template wiki" #144
09:48:50 From Marc Pierson Thank you Paul for making the Enrich Kumu SVG work!!!
09:49:01 From Jeff Miller Thompson made a prototype site, and he provisions a site and before it's claimed, he forks pages in. (Ward describes Thompson's procedure)
09:50:19 From Jeff Miller "If you have too many pages built into a site, it feels like you're filling out a form in a complicated way. Tina and her students will figure out what's about right." "you know, we could ..." (discussion of trying to have ideas not run too far ahead of implementation)
09:51:28 From Jeff Miller "register" vs. "claim" "setup" vs. "provision"
09:51:41 From Brian emergent.
09:51:56 From Jeff Miller "emerge" vs. "create" [ty Brian] NextCloud - a way of sharing / storing backups? "there must be a community around it doing all kinds of cool things"
09:53:08 From Jeff Miller "NextCloud paired with Matrix" -- a get-off-Google package a custom email that acts as how you federate with other NextCloud users
09:54:29 From Jeff Miller "clone the ideas from NextCloud and wire them into something that's intrinsically Wiki" - Ward
09:54:42 From Brian assimilates
09:55:29 From Jeff Miller a creole of Federation things - having to understand many contexts in order to do things (try to avoid the too-many-contexts)
09:56:06 From Brian That is sort of like communicating with only questions? They have a lookup table, it's as deep as the table is.
09:59:24
09:59:24 From Brian We need more formal methods in our programming...
09:59:39 From Jeff Miller (side discussion about chat based API, programming, programming like having infinite wishes from a malicious genie, chat based programming)
10:00:14 From Brian I updated bash responses in college...we weren't very friendly to the user...
10:00:59 From Jeff Miller "asks good questions" is a positive feedback mark for people. Colossus: The Forbin Project
10:01:57 From Brian Big difference in the degrees of freedom...I think... I think there are ALUs in Minecraft.
10:02:55 From Jeff Miller https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus:_The_Forbin_Project "imagine you're a debugger..." to ChatGPT
10:03:15 From Brian Charles Moore basically did that and ended up with an asynchronous 18-bit CPU.
10:03:18 From Jeff Miller (making the CPU and memory rails very hot)
10:05:01 From Jeff Miller "The Da Vinci Code" - assembling a set of places and facts, but presenting them as a plausible story without any substance (chat-based conversational AI failure mode: confabulation)
10:05:39 From Brian We use analogies, metaphors, and formalisms for reasoning...it's the best we got, so not surprised. Dan Brown.
10:06:26 From Jeff Miller "Foucault's Pendulum" as a book about the danger of falling into your conspiracy beliefs? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault%27s_Pendulum
10:07:04 From Brian And connected them But the better question to ask is what is a conspiracy theory doing for the believers. What need is it fulfilling?
10:08:21 From Jeff Miller state-change without catalysts superheating supersaturation state-change with a catalyst boiling chip nucleation crystal Marc: "a major integration of the work that I've been doing"
10:09:17 From Brian temperature and pressure are simplified concepts to describe the macro state of the system, which is really a summary or average of the micro states.
10:09:41 From Jeff Miller the generally unobservable micro states thermodynamics == random localities cancel out billiard ball mechanics == can follow every particle
10:10:55 From Jeff Miller mesoscale systems == too complicated to follow everything, not thoroughly mixed enough that things cancel out to a useful summary number King's Cross, or Charing Cross, as the center of London? the formally defiined one
10:12:41 From Jeff Miller side topic: cars as more invasive than our smartphone apps a pre-2005 car? (for privacy)
10:13:01 From Brian Anything in the last 10 years is pretty suspect.
10:13:05 From Jeff Miller all modern cars failed the privacy test my latest rental car was a Corolla sedan with a big navigation console but would not offer maps if I wasn't "signed in" :(
10:13:54 From Paul Rodwell https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/articles/its-official-cars-are-the-worst-product-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/
10:14:33 From Brian e.g. anything with OnStar has been tracking and can take over some control of your car.
10:14:43 From Jeff Miller fitbit as spy app on troops doing their physical training BlackHat has enjoyed breaking into cars remotely.
10:15:44 From Brian Do we ever even "own" anything anymore, with the recurring monthly fees for everything. We need a better compensation model
10:16:34 From Jeff Miller "decline everything!" but you probably don't have the chance to decline the things you'd want to
10:17:45 From Jeff Miller (Bluetooth fights, who's connected to what?)
10:17:56 From Brian No autopairing.
10:18:03 From Jeff Miller [the One Laptop per Child had mesh built in which was kind of nice]
10:18:04 From Robert Best i need to switch back to mobile mode... ill coordinate with getting an hour with you soon Ward to make Thompson's registration forms work.
10:18:16 From Jeff Miller it's not auto-pairing, it's auto-resume-pairing a demo from Eric "trying to get two panels to listen to each other" part of CSS-Spikes "explore code" / "preview code" or rather "explore code" / "Preview"
10:20:22 From Jeff Miller the left panel is an open editor the right panel (the next card in the lineup) is a preview which renders the contents of the editor the editor can be selectable for which type of item
10:21:42 From Jeff Miller Eric shows how the preview works, and where it breaks (querying for HTML tags where there are no actual tags) Live Markdown preview works
10:23:07 From Jeff Miller "Let's add a new plugin, call it 'dot', say that it depends on 'html' and 'dot' libraries; that the function expects all of the things as references in the function, starting with the wiki item to be rendered: fn: (item, html, dot)." "The menu doesn't immediately update to recognize a new plugin I add in the Javascript console."
10:24:09 From Jeff Miller "But here's how you do it... look, here's a sample of the Dot interpretation! I have a live preview of editing Dot, just having added the plugin now." it's a moldable development environment! (-J)
10:24:26 From Brian This is very cool, Eric!
10:24:57 From Jeff Miller Looks a lot like the Glamorous Toolkit's patterns! "it needs a generator pattern, to forward the edit operations from the editor to the preview which is observing changes in the itemstate" item state "having different notebooks available" in the Observable based wiki client
10:26:00 From Jeff Miller similar to Bostock's terminology for Observable notebooks in the Observable source code they call them modules you can export a notebook create a notebook in Observable export it as a notebook open it with a wiki client
10:28:00 From Jeff Miller Eric: "this trick was interesting, this is an anonymous variable, which defines a listener to changes to the plugin, I'll redefine the preview handler such that the preview variable now uses a new interpreter for the new plugin type."
10:29:04 From Jeff Miller "this is the listener side, and here the preview page looks a lot like a wiki page in a lineup, because I've chosen to have the preview page to follow the same pattern; but instead of a story it has a preview listener item" "the key things are two variables; a view of the item, and the item"
10:30:57 From Jeff Miller "the bootstrap for preview is an incantation to get a plugin interpretation; but I also put the item, using the generator library; whenever the viewof item changes, then Generators listens for input events on that element, and yields them to whoever is listening; the previous notebook forwards the DOM events on the editor to the preview" (probably missed some elements) "the generator translates DOM events into Observable events" - Ward's paraphrase of Eric. "Yes."
10:31:36 From Marc Pierson Here is a video of me relating the ReLocalize Creativity tool to one another. http://marc.relocalizecreativity.net/view/welcome-visitors/view/explaining-relocalize-creativity
10:32:12 From Jeff Miller "the event forwarding for DOM events, and the event forwarding for Observable events, use different mechanisms"
10:32:41 From Marc Pierson Here is a link to Robin Asby’s chapter 8 index. https://robina.relocalizecreativity.net/view/welcome-visitors/view/chapter-8
10:33:05 From Jeff Miller "The only plugin which will take input is the editor plugin, but I think I'm steps away from being able to double-click and set map pins." (other plugins which take input which modifies the item content) [this reminds me of low-code and codebehind]
10:35:30 From Jeff Miller "The 'editor' is a DOM element, it's the outside div, I can then add items inside the editor, or add properties to it, like data item ID; Observable borrows conventions from DOM elements, and they have values, such as an input element's value -- I can use this same convention, a wiki item has an id and a type and a text" "I change the type, create a new item with a type and a text, and send an input event."
10:36:52 From Jeff Miller "Now I have a div element... everything about this editor pretends to be a DOM input element, attached to a div, and nothing here is actually specific to Observable. It's only when I add the item to a story..."
10:38:30 From Jeff Miller "here's how I add a ghost page for Explore Code, the editor plugin interprets the content as an element of the DOM; when I add the editor element to the Story, it creates a ViewOf and it creates a listener to that div, that listens using the generators library for input events -- that's all the machinery involved."
10:40:25 From Jeff Miller "The demo, creating a simple Dot plugin (without our logic for inter-page references), is an example that demonstrates that we could quickly create new item types in the Observable library platform in the same way." "that's all published now into the Spikes site" https://css-spikes.dbbs.co/pwa
10:43:25
10:43:25 From Brian This is how creole gets made. :)
10:48:04
10:48:04 From Paul Rodwell while blink is deprecated, <marquee> isn’t.
10:51:27
10:51:27 From Marc Pierson Would it be useful to be able to remove everything from a journal except the flags for forks?
10:52:32 From Marc Pierson Also, how can Kerry grab everything on one page and “paste” it into a new page?
10:53:02 From Paul Rodwell Just major events, page creation and forks, should be one option for the journal view - maybe what is shown as the default for the viewer.
10:54:49 From Marc Pierson This sound good. Or whenever on leaves a page you are editing the detail are hidden unless you ask for it.
10:57:41
10:57:41 From Jeff Miller copying from Eric's preview page "If you hover over the flag on a page, it tells you not just where it came from, but what kind of page it is." - Ward "a notebook of type something-or-other" - it LOOKS the same, but it's a different kind of thing. For example is a SoFi notebook in a lineup -- that would be a kind of page? "If it pulls the configurations out of the lineup rather than the SoFi page state itself?" "We could make a whole new kind of panel which would work well for Marc's case, for styling a diagram, for being usable for Marc's purposes." Eric: the supercollaborator is an inspiration for the preview panel as to the right of the editor, seeing continuous updates" Maybe paragraphs have an edit button that previews to the side? then you save and the journal gets updated, after you've interactively worked with it until you like the result. Ward says: anything that a human cares about goes into the journal -- but zooming the map, or moving cards in the lineup, those don't go in the journal. Like Observable's concept of "run" versus adding new paragraphs to an Observable notebook. Eric: editor as a private/editor view, with download to upload as the public view? (paraphrase?) - "the thing that's annoying is still a feature"
11:00:23
11:00:23 From Jeff Miller Ward: "work for interoperability between pages; Eric's demo shows that there is a lot of power in Observable's interaction pattern; that we should be able to have an Observable wiki client which understands our existing wikis." "Even the Map plugin might be a quick reach in the Observable ecosystem."
11:01:57 From Jeff Miller Brian says: "I've written an extract which pulls the pages from my wiki, and almost allows a static output as a Markdown based site." Brian: related to how to migrate or backup a site, as a site user slugs.json gives me all the page names
11:03:02 From Jeff Miller then if I grab all the pages by those names then I put them in the pages dir, that should work, less Assets? Ward: yes. Ward: you can also export an "export.json" summary of your site, a map of maps.
11:04:36 From Jeff Miller (Brian, Robert, Marc discussing migration; NextCloud as a migration mechanism) "it's the same flat file system, NextCloud could also get you the assets"
11:05:51 From Jeff Miller Marc: (screen-share presentation) a spreadsheet in Numbers, "Ashby and EIP numbers"
11:06:33 From Paul Rodwell the `export.json` file goes back to the early days of wiki. would be nice create an updated export that also includes assets.
11:06:35 From Jeff Miller the three-column form Robin Asby "Thinking Systems", a book by Robin Asby
11:07:38 From Jeff Miller Asby: "how do you get people into a House of Representatives, VSM's System 5, from Stafford Beer's work"
11:07:53 From Paul Rodwell https://robina.relocalizecreativity.net/view/welcome-visitors/view/chapter-8-index
11:09:17 From Jeff Miller SoFi models of the org models of the outside world the executive, where do they go with the system knowledge VSM System 2, "the community collective", how do you avoid stepping on each other -- the people who are producing things, taking direct actions actual citizen layer, what do they need to do? (back to a spreadsheet which scales from the hierarchy of political orgs from world down to neighborhood, community association, citizen/member)
11:10:56 From Jeff Miller VSM systems mapped on to functions from Asby and Beer; Marc's insight of how the systems nest nested recursion of a specific function ("house of representatives" for laws and governance at different levels) what is participation / citizenship at all these levels of scale?
11:12:01 From Jeff Miller "every citizen on Earth is potentially a member of all these levels" "a member of / a citizen of ..." the nested human governance layers: what's required, what's prohibited?
11:13:48 From Jeff Miller "number of entities at each level", human, community association, neighborhood, municipality, couty, state, nation [c. 195], multinational alliance [c. 50], United Nations "to think that you can pass laws at a grand level that work for everyone else at the individual level doesn't make sense" - how do the nested governance layers work?
11:15:17 From Jeff Miller you need your near-by levels to enable and not prevent you from acting productively and collaboratively so that you can think of rules for different sorts of systems where there are recursions of expertise; whoever is in charge of housing for the UN or the US is someone who has come up through working at the other, more particular levels
11:16:39 From Jeff Miller (Marc's thoughts for not parachuting an authoritative decider from above) example of the SAFETY function at each level, who's responsible for what and why
11:17:07 From Pete Q: Trying to introduce others to WTF is VSM, is the Wikipedia page adequate? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viable_system_model
11:17:58 From Jeff Miller I like the wikipedia article fine Brian suggests: "at the end of these 5 minutes, you'll understand better how citizens and neighborhoods function in the bigger picture." Brian asks "so where's the tobacco lobby in this picture?'
11:19:16 From Jeff Miller Marc says: those are associations, ad-hoc interest groups, not sure how to integrate them; and they do exist from the neighborhood level up? Marc says: that lobbyists are in a powerful position to coordinate action -- so how do we get those coordinating folks to pay attention to the needs of the members of the systems?
11:20:33 From Jeff Miller Brian: yes; maybe there's a third dimension of influence and power of associations? Brian: you have to understand what pressures are on the representative, before you have a chance to influence them.
11:21:45 From Jeff Miller Ward: so the picture from Marc is an ideal way of transmitting needs and decisions, subject to real complications in the world. Brian: Marc's picture could use an explicit statement of governing values at the top -- so that you don't lose those in the working out of the system.
11:23:03 From Brian Or dichotomy between eastern and western Wa or Or.
11:23:18 From Jeff Miller (example of two states at cross-purposes for tax on their residents, where there are different models for income versus property tax, between Washington and Oregon) (who pays for the I-5 bridge between people who live in Vancouver, WA and work in Portland, OR?) "Why are Oregonians making life easier for tax evaders?"
11:24:32 From Jeff Miller (by paying for the freeway improvement) (tension between the border of governance matching the border of taxation -- when you don't have actual nesting in all respects)
11:26:44 From Jeff Miller "maybe you're a member of a single neighborhood by spatial location, but there are other communities you're a member of, a lot of overlap of membership..." Brian
11:27:06 From Marc Pierson A city is not a tree Alexander’s thought on non exclusive sets.
11:28:47 From Jeff Miller Dual citizenship: he liked his Canada-registered plane with a "C" tail number -- but if you don't have a residence in Canada, you shouldn't have a "C" tail number.
11:29:49 From Jeff Miller A City is Not a Tree (wikipedia): Its core contention is that urban planners tend to design cities as tree diagrams (with each node only having a relationship with a parent node), while successful unplanned cities have a semi-lattice structure (where each node has relationships with many nodes).
11:30:51 From Jeff Miller PDF of A City is Not a Tree: http://www.sustasis.net/ACINAT-LR.pdf "Low-resolution courtesy copy" pp1-34 is the original essay
11:32:28 From Jeff Miller is diversity a choice of flavors? is diversity authentic? Brian says: "quality starts at the top", experience during whole career consistently steering toward a principle "what does identity mean?"
11:33:41 From Jeff Miller (how the community views an individual, more than who the individual views themselves) [how do people have autonomy?]
11:35:12 From Jeff Miller Marc says: "authority starts at the top, and enforces whatever worldview it has, which might be a bad world view"
11:36:39 From Jeff Miller Eric: "tangled layered network" similar to David Woods' graceful extensible systems ... entangled hierarchy, Ostrom's polycentric governance Entanglement between and across layers doesn't get represented a lot between federal governments and state governments, for example. Your column on citizens explains the entanglement. (a person with connections and relationships at many levels)
11:38:27 From Jeff Miller Eric: regulatory capture by insiders (power plants and power plant regulators, let's say) Marc; make the entanglements and the inferences from them visible, via fedwiki and El Dorado and other tools.
11:39:27 From Marc Pierson Panama Papers revealed entanglements.
11:40:05 From Brian maybe "scale" is an important aspect. Both in volume and in reach.
11:40:08 From Marc Pierson Middle schools should not exist in my opinion.
11:40:17 From Jeff Miller Ward: entangled learning is something that Thompson Morrison learned from the agile software community; people learning in a common context can be synergetic, can play productively across each other."
11:40:32 From Brian Kind of reflected in the population numbers in each of the various levels.
11:41:23 From Jeff Miller from Thompson: Middle School is a great place to shape young folks' perspectives, they have enough to start with, but haven't had everything set. K-8 / 9-12 ? (should there be middle schools?) or K-3, 4-6, 7-8, 9-12 ? middle school: a dislocating experience
11:42:55 From Jeff Miller Middle school was dislocating for me, but there were other life changes at the same time. I got more individual attention in high school, but I did get some in middle school.
11:44:30 From Jeff Miller Ward offers a story about teachers who meshed closely with particular students' learning styles.
11:44:45 From Marc Pierson I must continue to attempt to move that spread sheet (model) into OPM because it handles recursions cleanly and computationally.
11:46:14 From Jeff Miller Marc: the spreadsheet is an index for patterns; you need to chunk information and relationship for how it's useful. How do you address things at different scales, within different areas. Like Alexander's pattern language addressing patterns at different levels. Ward: the transition from yourself to your neighbor is as important as the structure of your own house.
11:48:36 From Jeff Miller Marc: extension of the SoFi work (within a system, do evaluations of agreements and relationships) to create mechanisms to make assessments across levels of neighborhoods, of governance, of how people perceive things. What's the difference of opinion about things? Jeff: it would be better than NextDoor!
11:49:53 From Jeff Miller Brian: community participation takes time. How can you build expertise and make a living being that person?
11:49:59 From Marc Pierson It must be Hamiltonians for volunteers.
11:50:54 From Jeff Miller a pattern: "block grandmas in China" ? (supported for efforts to maintain communities) Ward: by disengaging from many hierarchies, we get to pursue curiosity; like artists who don't have to make a living with our art.
11:52:01 From Jeff Miller "when should artists be paid?" - Marc oh hang on, this touches Brian Marick's "Collaborative Circles" Buckminster Fuller: "let's do this via dynamic maximization" our culture has a money-as-virtue thing that is pretty bad
11:53:23 From Jeff Miller money is a substitute for all things disaster help mode: "I'll help freely for two weeks, but I don't want to be The Helper"
11:54:56 From Jeff Miller Brian: the median citation for papers in science is zero; what's the onboarding path for learning expertise until you're useful?
11:56:01 From Jeff Miller relevant to: how can we fund Chris to do continuing work in Superior, Arizona?
11:56:49 From Paul Rodwell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income
11:57:23 From Jeff Miller UBI potentially factors away a lot of overhead in how people get their livelihood which then allows not to have micromanagement of other ways to collaborate around money
11:58:49 From Jeff Miller "any utility subcontractors have to live in the county" - it helps align the contractor's interests with the district's interest "low bid" -- no easy recourse to a poor job (Brian's example from his neighbor who worked for the public utility district)
12:00:58 From Jeff Miller "are the conversations across that edge happening; are the conversations good qualiity" (Ward, back to Marc's model of relationships) put it in the table -> put it in Neo4J -> highlight useful relationships "we could have tens of MB of data right behind the screen, and it would work just fine in Neo4J"
12:02:22 From Jeff Miller can phones project on a wall? :)
12:02:31 From Brian Reminded of the "make the desired thing easy, and the less desired thing hard" when setting up systems.
12:02:43 From Jeff Miller right
12:03:28 From Paul Rodwell there was one phone(?) that included a projector. Might be misremembering that though.
12:03:46 From Jeff Miller of course these days if everything has USB
12:03:56 From Paul Rodwell or BT
12:04:06 From Jeff Miller bittorrent? oh bluetooth bluetooth has made multiple bad impressions on me
12:06:25 From Paul Rodwell for number of nodes, think of a number double it, add a few noughts - maybe getting close
12:06:55 From Jeff Miller (discussion of El Dorado data management, data collection, representation of systems, who is responsible for data; the danger of a single collection point, the danger of edits which might cause things to disappear)
12:06:58 From Marc Pierson 👍 Re exponential complexity
12:07:58 From Jeff Miller mechanical updates go into the Assets; humans edit the pages and have some supervisory control (hope I got that right)
12:08:28 From Brian Another thought on your matrix, Marc, is that humans like 3-5 things/concepts at once, so some refactoring it into smaller bites will be useful for some/many cases.
12:08:46 From Jeff Miller "would a good mobile experience give us a motivation to work on a rewrite?"
12:09:21 From Marc Pierson Eric, you pulled a Pierson. Paul did the Enrich Kumu SVG. I thank you both!!
12:09:35 From Jeff Miller (Eldorado, FedWiki, Observable Library prototype client, platforms and use cases, Neo4J, modeling data in a graph, making shareable data easily shared via query)
12:10:43 From Jeff Miller "We probably could redo SoFi from two years ago with today's machinery, but what was beautiful about it was that you could make the lines point the right way -- though it wasn't in wiki itself" [ ... ] What made Eldorado surprisingly powerful was that it was actually a recommender engine.
12:11:49 From Jeff Miller If you click on a node, it gives you a query that would provide interesting information, distinct from merely navigating nodes.
12:12:02 From Paul Rodwell Replying to ""would a good mobile..." There was an observation in a previous call, probably not recorded, that might be better to build targeted mobile apps, that contribute to the federation rather than building something to be full feature on both mobile and desktop.
12:12:56 From Marc Pierson Relevance is built in to the queries.
12:12:59 From Jeff Miller Eric refers to Ward's demonstration at the DDD conference, that a click on the arrow --- it's not just the Kafka topic, but what pops up is a curated query, designed to be helpful in navigating the graph, not just revealing more detail. a human-curated understanding of what that web of stuff is
12:13:59 From Marc Pierson Graphs and stories are wonderfully synergist.
12:14:04 From Brian Back to the telephone games..
12:14:05 From Jeff Miller Ward; a community of storytellers talking about the condition of the world; that each of the stories is an abstraction of one interesting story to another interesting story that's connected; it's a collection of different projections each query is a projection of an interesting question about the company; details are relevant to coloring the story; so "what about people who are connected to more than one project?"
12:15:08 From Jeff Miller a more comprehensive picture of the company's reality of projects and project participants
12:15:55 From Marc Pierson RELEVANCE
12:15:59 From Paul Rodwell how many people? 2 or bits of time from a dozen.
12:16:02 From Jeff Miller that Eric's executives are wishing for a way to tell that story in a frozen snapshot that means something; while what is needed is not a view, but rather a practice of inquiry with all the programmers working on various systems, the questions had no fixed answers
12:17:27 From Jeff Miller Ward describes the competition between data collection and data projection ni Eldorado; that making the graph recomputation fast enough to have it update multiple times a day an important property in making the system usefully live within less than a day "can't we put this on a spreadsheet?" / "the spreadsheet makes the relationships implicit,not explicit"
12:18:43 From Jeff Miller Marc: this meeting seemed to be especially deep and broad.
12:20:17 From Jeff Miller Marc: Brian's critical questions; Eric's dramatic demonstration of the flexible client; the in-depth discussion of how to use the creative governance models in specific ways Ward and Robert working with wiki collaboration setup for Thompson's work, which will prepare for work in other collaborative fields, like neighborhoods
12:22:18 From Jeff Miller translating between the domain of students, teachers, and learning; and the technical plumbers who can make things work, without losing things on the telephone game I kind of stepped up but forgot to save half the chat!