Text extraction. See Typescript Archive
09:12:00
09:12:00 From Brian Not sure what is going on, but one of my clocks reset and connection is very slow now...
09:12:19 From Jeff Miller interesting
09:13:18 From Brian Most likely, a tiny power bumb. bump
09:13:27 From Jeff Miller Marc and Ward discuss a diagram with connection weights between nodes in a graph.
09:13:54 From Paul Rodwell DST ended last night for some of us.. Maybe your clock things you are elsewhere
09:13:57 From Jeff Miller "Which variables are more likely to be useful in shifting the system?" I think the US has another week of summer (time) where I am.
09:15:16 From Jeff Miller A connection weight in a range 1-4 is Marc's example system; or a fuzzy logic range between 0 and 1 would be a helpful value range. a graph with weighted edges downloadable as a CSV spreadsheet
09:16:21 From Jeff Miller a rendering that is intuitive and evocative visually on the screen perhaps with weights and symbols on the edges.
09:17:25 From Jeff Miller (I've seen human relationship diagrams done with line weights, line style solid/dashed, and annotation symbols)
09:18:58 From Jeff Miller Marc observes that the weighted and symbol decorated graphs calls back to the body of work in Ward's Supercollaborator in overlaying graphs and highlighting common nodes.
09:20:01 From Jeff Miller Ward says: you're better off with a collection of small graphs, perhaps each attached to a wiki page, then you are with a large graph. Having small graphs to combine via merging and looking for visual patterns seems like a more friendly approach.
09:21:26 From Jeff Miller Ward observes: you would only learn about working with graphs in this way, in the context of practical use. You (Marc and Kerry) are exploring this space and discovering things.
09:21:39 From Brian https://www.amazon.com/Refactoring-Patterns-Joshua-Kerievsky/dp/0321213351 I heard this book referenced this week. I'm not sure if this book does it or not, but it seems to me that there is the meta-refactoring across multiple domains of how rules for the macro scale can emerge from the micro scale.
09:22:06 From Jeff Miller Ward reflects about one-day projects as a point of focus. "I'm about six days out on my one-day projects." Brian: yes. http://recurse.pixiereport.com/view/welcome-visitors/view/refactoring-to-patterns
09:23:33 From Jeff Miller Marc talks about a pattern language for family therapy with cycles of interacting, reinforcing behavior, and actions which break those cycles.
09:23:46 From Brian Do a large degree, my refactoring approach is simply naming a fragment, that can be extracted and substituted. Then it grows contstraints on when it is valid to substitute back in or not.
09:23:55 From Jeff Miller Gerald Weinberg for sure Virginia Satir
09:25:54 From Jeff Miller Gerald Weinberg also liked examples from dog training. (reminding me obliquely of Kerry and horse training)
09:26:23 From Brian FYI, the fedwiki transfer code Marc and I have been working through is at https://gitlab.com/SamAxe/fw_xfer The code is pretty rough, but does some of the basics so far.
09:26:47 From Jeff Miller Eric recalls hearing about Virginia Satir (her notion of congruence) from a Learning from Incidents colleague. non-random guy :)
09:28:04 From Brian local minia...
09:28:11 From Jeff Miller The sense of congruence in Satir is one which Eric can see in Marc's approach to neighborhoods and overlapping groups and changes.
09:28:21 From Brian Time...
09:28:30 From Jeff Miller Satir change model, old status quo to new situation via change. and the change is disruptive and unhappy-making This time for sure! (Mr. Toad voice)
09:29:39 From Jeff Miller new language community?
09:29:48 From Brian PHP is the constant...but 10s of frameworks have come and gone since PHP came out...lol.
09:30:15 From Jeff Miller Brian Marick's reflections on Clojure sound like an unhappy replay of Worse is Better
09:30:49 From Brian I really enjoyed https://hypermedia.systems/book/contents/ this week talking about htmx vs Saas+JS It has a bit of the history of the web from static pages, to cgi, to applications and where the "better" places are and the harder places.
09:33:13 From Jeff Miller A quick tour of Marc's view of the rapidly evolving EIP space. Environments, Institutions, Political Systems.
09:34:18 From Jeff Miller Marc displays a Miro board with a large graph using the EIP structure white notes are areas of interest, connected to levels of political governance which usually handle them
09:35:23 From Jeff Miller "Who should be doing what, where, and when?" as a sense you can get from the graph. "What are the things that exist with or without people?" close to the Environments (Ecology, Biology, etc) -- energy, animals, water, etc.
09:36:47 From Jeff Miller Above the EIP columns there are black notes connecting items under question notes question notes: Q1 through Q6 - WHO, HOW, WHAT, WHERE; the black notes with numbers are FOUR SOCIETAL VALUES.
09:38:06 From Jeff Miller zoomed out diagram lower half is the EIP solution space upper half is societal values and links among the values
09:39:08 From Jeff Miller the EIP space below is used for constructing causal loop diagrams WHY, WHEN, WHERE, WHO, HOW, WHAT <- six questions
09:40:16 From Jeff Miller EIP domains in yellow, recurring down the political levels of nesting and overlapping governance Community Collectives, Executives, House of Representatives, Houses of Experts "You need those houses of experts from top to bottom, "[who are local specialists at the lower levels"
09:43:39
09:43:39 From Jeff Miller "single-issue politics" ... an issue could be a sticky note anywhere on the EIP diagram. If you only concentrate on that single issue, then you lay aside the many, many issues which enable change in that single issue.
09:43:44 From Marc Pierson “Aliveness”
09:44:20 From Brian Jeff, I really enjoy the way that you capture the conversation in the transcripts. Your style and quality is worth noting. There are aspects that I'll certainly incorporate into my own style.
09:46:04 From Jeff Miller Marc says: when you orient around "the aliveness of your [neighborhood, watershed, etc.], then it helps people see "the aliveness of" invites people in a very open-ended way to reflect on what they're actually doing right here and now.
09:47:43 From Jeff Miller Marc observes: some of the variables people pick, those variables invite curiosity. They invite a bigger diagram, a bigger context, to be pruned down to something that we can operate on.
09:50:37
09:50:37 From Jeff Miller Ward observes: "aliveness" lets you consider weighing options in a community around what would make things healthier. Marc observes: we want to give people more options than "more efficient" or "more profitable"
09:51:26 From Paul Rodwell APL keyboard layout - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5FQZiOWAAEqlH3.png
09:51:41 From Jeff Miller Brian says: the context of what is pleasant, or what is alive -- like "reading a book on a bench in a park" -- that will depend on that person's history.
09:52:46 From Brian http://paniolo.xyz:8085/view/welcome-visitors/view/stuffrelatedtomarc/view/ashby-chap8
09:52:58 From Jeff Miller Brian reflects on peer systems needing to communicate with each other on common terms, "the Justice Department says", "the other organization's spokesman says"
09:53:11 From Marc Pierson https://robina.relocalizecreativity.net/view/welcome-visitors/view/chapter-8-index
09:54:30 From Brian I've heard more negative about GraphQL than positive, but haven't used it myself.
09:54:58 From Marc Pierson Try OPM and OPCloud instead of GraphQL.
09:55:03 From Jeff Miller Eric says: I have seen those patterns of miscommunication between API developers and API consumers -- it leads to trouble of the Conway's Law sense.
09:55:13 From Brian I think Steve Covey had an example of fixing the front office - back office problem by adding in a middle office...
09:55:32 From Marc Pierson Neo4j is interoperable with OPCloud.
09:55:47 From Jeff Miller For example (Eric says), a federated query which times out -- they get a null in a data structure, and what happened? why?
10:00:45
10:00:45 From Jeff Miller Microsoft bridges API users and API developers via "office hours". (to Eric's point of lack of communication). * office hours happen regularly in different time zones; * office hours have a text notes space which stays alive between sessions; * office hours are first come first serve in a video chat platform * quick problems are dealt with quickly and include a link to documentation or a pointer to where people are figuring things out * knowledge is shared among interested people waiting for office hours help * confidence and common knowledge are built by the rhythm of office hours and the visible presence of interactions and conversations around the platform and API
10:01:55 From Jeff Miller Ward describes the escrow agent in a transaction as a "middle office" in analogy to the discussion about difficulties accommodating API users and API consumers.
10:03:43 From Jeff Miller Pete (PeteDaGuru) reflects on the history of GraphQL APIs, there's a lot of "middle office" technology to map what you say you want in the query to what is efficiently available. The motivation for GraphQL is significantly "only transmit the few things that I need to display". An early query might show you a bill of materials - what things are available from a query.
10:05:10 From Marc Pierson A group is more like a brain and less like a database. A groups “understanding” is fleeting hopefully finds some action to perform and reify the understanding and learn something in the process.
10:09:18
10:09:18 From Jeff Miller Ward reflects on the history of human-computer interaction and visual modeling; * games, GPUs, rapid visual rendering; * Smalltalk, desktop metaphor, direct interactions; both streams are healthy.
10:11:23 From Paul Rodwell lunar lander, a visualiser of some of that tech - http://apolloguidance.computer/rope/
10:12:20 From Jeff Miller actual lunar lander electronics board!
10:14:34 From Jeff Miller Eric reflects on a place where the workplace needs to have a better system for the regular business back-office software; he's considering a set of processes where errors need manual cleanup. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome
10:19:59
10:19:59 From Eric Dobbs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb6NS_F5xTE “Plate spinner"
10:20:14 From Jeff Miller Pete reflects on the "plate spinner" segments as filler for variety shows work can often end up with a "plate spinner" in software operation, keeping all the plates spinning If you have enough people, you can keep the plates spinning individually.
10:21:24 From Ward Cunningham https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=577635516&sxsrf=AM9HkKmYaACCM2eKpQ1u4eP4sNyQLt1zNA:1698600032384&q=plate+spinning+images&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiEsq6c4puCAxWwHjQIHYwACu4Q0pQJegQIChAB&biw=1372&bih=822&dpr=2
10:22:44 From Jeff Miller http://recurse.pixiereport.com/view/taking-responsibility
10:24:29 From Paul Rodwell just one, of the many examples, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k44uoVm0lPI
10:28:37
10:28:37 From Jeff Miller an Ed Sullivan impersonator!
10:29:35 From Eric Dobbs https://simonwillison.net/2020/Nov/14/personal-data-warehouses/
10:30:08 From Jeff Miller Simon Willison, known for Django work; new work in publishing interesting bits of data in small web containers; working for the Guardian. How to share journalists with spreadsheets full of data - how to make the data helpful to others.
10:31:25 From Jeff Miller a personal data warehouse by analogy to personal knowledge management in the Q and A, an example of using WASM-compiled SQLite in an Observable notebook (from Simon Willison's personal data warehouses talk) "datasette" being Simon Willison's specific innovation for distribution
10:33:25 From Jeff Miller Ward observes: SQLite and the command line work well together, in ways that bridge the workflow for command-line work and the structure of DBs. Ward observes: wiki is scaled usefully for 10-100 things, fewer than ten, they go in a page; up in the order of 1000, you have something you might manage with a JSON asset and a frame script
10:34:43 From Jeff Miller higher than that, you discover regular structure you'd like to preserve in the JSON, you discover a schema. Ward observes: a thousand things, these days, can be conveniently stored in many ways.
10:35:58 From Jeff Miller Everybody copies the SELECT ... WHERE ... syntax, but the back-end is variously many things. (including abstractions across multiple data stores)
10:37:28 From Jeff Miller Datasette: https://datasette.io/ Dogsheep: personal analytics using SQLite and Datasette: https://dogsheep.github.io/ Simon Willison Eric reflects: one of the more valuable parts for us in Simon Willison's talk is in Simon's examples of data sources, in describing how he takes them into his system.
10:38:46 From Jeff Miller Using the Apple Watch's "health tracking" app to capture XML location tracking for a route, and then pulling it in and importing it. "How did Simon pull the location track out of Apple?"
10:39:59 From Jeff Miller (my Fitbit is NOT sync'd to my watch) - per Eric's note about his fitness tracking work
10:40:13 From Paul Rodwell HealthKit to SQLite on https://dogsheep.github.io/
10:41:06 From Jeff Miller Eric reflects: if I have the data, rather than one of the large cloud providers, it gives me a different feel; at least all the QUERIES for my own data can be local, if I use Simon Willison's method. Eric says: "pun-driven development" - "Dogsheep" was inspired by Stephen Wolfram's personal data tracking.
10:42:31 From Paul Rodwell a definition - Pun Driven Development – your code is heavily laced with intricate puns. The maintenance programmers who inherit your code want to kill themselves.
10:43:03 From Jeff Miller makes them want to PUNch themselves
10:46:57
10:46:57 From Jeff Miller (discussion of Willison's data sets, of artificial intelligence around photos, around "a year ago, remember these photos") (the hazards of offering "remember when", when a tragic event happens)
10:49:43
10:49:43 From Jeff Miller Child Caves pattern for cats.
10:51:03 From Jeff Miller curling up on a chair seat pushed into a dining room table compass directions and how we orient to landscape - where is the ocean?
10:52:29 From Jeff Miller https://us.feliway.com/pages/faq
10:53:33 From Jeff Miller hormone diffuser to mediate cat moods ("Feliway")
10:55:25 From Jeff Miller maybe a circle gradient for me - the linear gradients are too samey samey for a particular purpose
10:55:38 From Eric Dobbs https://observablehq.com/@dobbs/svg-flagmatic
10:59:27
10:59:27 From Paul Rodwell from a little page to create flags
11:00:30 From Jeff Miller a set of flags with faint circular gradients (Paul's suggestion)
11:03:21
11:03:21 From Jeff Miller Ward reflects on Deno as having a complete, standard, and heavyweight runtime; versus Go's approach - they have a compiler for many platforms, and a community producing libraries in Go (which support many platforms).
11:05:32 From Paul Rodwell https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9j_VcsWsAAkGY1?format=jpg&name=large
11:07:31 From Jeff Miller Ward reflects that Javascript on the browser client gives you about 80% of what you want in a local programming environment, easily; Paul adds that a secure context will give you about 5% more.
11:08:32 From Eric Dobbs http://wiki.dbbs.co/browsers-demand-a-favicon.html
11:09:04 From Jeff Miller oh I like this link rel="icon" generated into a page
11:10:08 From Jeff Miller https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Clipboard/writeText "Note: clipboard is only available in https. Therefore we have explicitly specified an HTTPS url for the frame above."
11:12:55
11:12:55 From Jeff Miller oh, "script icons as circles"
11:13:05 From Paul Rodwell https://goals.pod.rodwell.me/flag-generator.html
11:16:08
11:16:08 From Jeff Miller Frame Plugin templates, look at Eric Dobbs' work with modules and plugins.