Pretty much the empty set. Lisp Weenies are too focused on being right (and they ARE right) to master being ingratiating about it, much less so ingratiating that it is grating.
Sorry -- what is it that they are "right" about, again? I keep asking this question but can't seem to get an answer.
That Lisp is more powerful. I may not be able to actually use lisp at work, but any language without readtime macro's is simply crippled.
Uhh -- say, what?!? Lisp is more "powerful" than...what? And if it's so gosh-darned powerful, how come you can't convince the Powers That Be at work to use it?
I just love baiting smarmy Lisp weenies.
I met some Smarmy Lisp Weenies back before Ai Winter. They all went on to be Weenies for something else.
This is one of the advantages of an economically marginalized community. The lusers have long since headed off for more Money Oriented Programming areas, and as a result the quality of those who are left (or who newly join) is much higher than average...
I suspect it is much more complex than you describe. Many of the smarmy types are more motivated by converting people than they are by money. Think of them as evangelists. An evangelist has two requirements: they need to believe that they are right, and they need to believe that they can bring other people to believe the same things. After AI winter it became nearly impossible to meet the second condition. LISP isn't the only good thing in computing. Many of the evangelists moved on.
You may have a point there. But I doubt there is much correlation between the evangelists and genuinely good ideas. I agree that Lisp isn't the only good thing in computing; on the other hand, there is little connection between the 'good things' and the 'popular things'. Perhaps the smarmy types wandered off to where the most people were....
Evangelists really like to believe *they* made something popular. Things that are already popular aren't as interesting. However, your point is still well taken. Something on the rising side of the curve, before it has really taken off. But something on the sinking side of the curve is anathema. I know, I used to evangelize a technology. It was heartbreaking when we failed. My name is Anakin Skywalker and I'm a Sith Lord.
Evangelists really like to believe *they* made something popular. - Also known as the 'Al Gore Effect'.
Look, all Al Gore ever said is that he played a significant part in ensuring the Internet would be available for public use. Anything else is just part of the Republican Propaganda Machine.
At the risk of stirring this putrid pot up Yet Again, I'd like to ask this question for the umpty-third time: Why is it that Lisp is so great? What prevented Lisp from taking over the entire software development world? Why couldn't Gold Owners be convinced to make Lisp the workplace standard?
If somebody were to ask me to defend, say, C language as an industry standard, I could do it in 25 words or less. Why can't the same be said about Lisp? Is there a 25WordApologia for Lisp?
{What's great about Lisp is that once you understand it, it feels good to program in it -- maybe better than programming in anything else. In short, coding in Lisp is highly satisfying for the programmer. We leave determining the implications that this may have on developer morale, and therefore on productivity, as an exercise for the reader. However, along with Lisp's ability to inspire joy in its users, paradoxically it raises fear and reactionary feelings in others. This has prevented Lisp from taking over the entire software development world. It's also possible that whilst most developers can endure coding in, say, Java or C#, there are perhaps many developers who would experience the diametric opposite of joy if forced to use Lisp. No one really likes Java or C#, but no one really hates them, either. (Some developers say they do, but they don't.) Lisp provokes strong emotions. You probably either love it or hate it. Things that draw strong emotion are unlikely to attract Gold Owners.}
One can find it an interesting language from a conceptual standpoint, but want to avoid it for production, especially in a team environment where excessive Mental Masturbation can lead to difficult-to-read/modify code. In short, keep the pleasure in your own bedroom, I don't want to clean up your jizz.
{Happy coding and difficult-to-read/modify code are orthogonal. The only negative connection between the two is found deep within your prejudices. Indeed, the more you have of the former, the less likely you are to find the latter.}
See: Smug Lisp Weenie, Wiki Warrior
See original on c2.com 